have you ever heard such b***ocks

By destroying lebanon until they rat out every last ounce of them . and then they can start on that raji place IRan .

Hang on those seem to be your thoughts

Don't be a plonker....

Hizbullah have been planning an attack on Israel for the last 6 years, they've created complex tunnels and bunkers, imported thousands of missiles from Iran, trained up a force of guerilla fighters and then fulfilled their objective and launched a war on Israel.

Now I stood side by side with the anti-war coalition when we marched against the war in Iraq, but this is the complete opposite... A militia has spent 6 years preparing itself for war... It initiates the war and the international community tells Israel to turn the other cheek?

Fuck off.

I actually agree with you mate but if your read through what youve been saying you pretty much come across like youd stop at nothing not caring what devestation is caused by the militry action . The priority in this war is not getting the terrorists its saving as many inocent lives as possible . that means giving a third party time to evacuate sed inoccents while you lot gaurd your borders from these missile attacks . then you can save yet more inocents by irradicationg hizbullah ! Simple (in theory)

How will airstrikes stop guerillas? Especially ones hiding i tunnels and bunkers? I think you're naive if you think this was an act of war by Hizbollah. I think it was just an act of provocation to initiate a ridiculously disproportionate response from Israel, making them look barbaric and losing sympathy within the international community. The State's response wil have also stirred up a hornet's nest of angry young Muslims in the middle east, keen to do something about their kin being bombarded by the evil Jew.

Doesn't Judaism tell you to turn the other cheek? I know you've said you're not very religious, and you mght have already covered this in another thread (we seem to have about 5 running on the same subject:spangled: ), but how can these attacks on Lebanon be justified from a religous point of view?

Again you're showing a clear misunderstanding of the events taking place - yes there are complex tunnel and bunker networks, but to think that every terrorist is hiding within these complexes is idiotic.

The majority of Hizbullah militants are above ground; like the 30 that hid in a mosque as they knew Israeli rules of engagement prohibit them firing on religious buildings or the Hizbullah militants that drew fire on the UNIFIL position... What I'm attempting to illustrate is Hizbullahs dominant tactic... Their use of civilian, peace keeping and religious shields.

You projected your opinion with an air of aplomb, so I'll ask you to elaborate on it slightly - why would Hizbullah want the international community to oppose Israel while whipping the Muslim community into a blood lusting frenzy?

No, it says an eye for an eye.

Judaism is not a pacifistic religion, it lacks the warrior undertones of Islam, but it clearly states that every man has the right to defend himself.

To make their enemy appear weaker, or lose respect. Or to try and limit Israel's actions by getting international bodies involved. Any number of reasons.

Fresh new recruits.

Ah, it was Jesus that said turn the other cheek wasn't it

To what extent I wonder.

But why was Israel their enemy? We pulled out of Lebanon.

And it is in this question that we find the answer, Hizbullah are no longer freedom fighters as they have freedom; they are now aggressors - Muslim fundamentalist with only one concern - driving the infidels out of "Palestine".

Of course they want to inflict as much damage on Israel as possible, you may see it as feeble rocket attacks, but I can assure you they will see these attacks as mighty blows against the infidel state.

Depends on the severity of the threat, when almost everyone within an 800 mile radius wants your total destruction I'd guess Judaism permits substantial defensive measures.

I'm not getting involved in any heated political discussion, but here's one analogy. The IRA starts firing dozens of missiles across the Irish Sea every day. What would you want the British Government to do?

http://www.tapuz.co.il/North/Game.asp

If the IRA controlled large areas of Ireland, held positions in government and the Irish government were unable to control the IRA... we'd attack the IRA.

exactly what they did after the IRA mainland assault fight them on their turf with as little civilian casualties as poss

you're an idiot... the two are incomparable.

Its like comparing WW2 to the conflict in Iraq.

Joe, there's no point even discussing any of this with you, as you don't take on a single point that anyone makes. I can understand that this is far closer to your heart than to most of ours, but I find your utter inability to display any sympathy whatsoever with the civilian casualties in Lebanon difficult to reconcile.

From my point of view, both sides are acting completely unacceptably, and the rest of the world isn't helping by faffing around the whole thing.

I've witnessed you all screaming out against the brutality of the Israeli's.

Yet I haven't heard one realistic alternative to the conflict... Time and time again I've asked intelligent people like yourself to come up with an alternative solution and not one of you have been able to do so.

its all good and well taking the moral high horse, but if you cannot think of an alterntive you really shouldn't be so vocal.

As I've said before, if I had a solution to it I wouldn't be sitting here posting about it on a message board, I'd be head of the UN. That doesn't mean I can't have an opinion though. Yes, I've had a go at Israel, but I've also said that I believe both sides are acting unacceptably.

Unfortunately I don't know that there is ever going to be a peaceful solution, as neither side seems to be very good at sitting down and talking about it (though Israel does generally have a better record, I'll give you that). The only way this will end is either with the destruction of Israel, or the destruction of every muslim that believes it shouldn't exist.

sadly i feel this is an almost certain..

This really is a job for the un but internal politics will mean it will act late like Bosnia.

Peace keeping troops should enter lebanon to find and disable Hizbullah missile sights and also gather intelligence about what courntrys and behind the attacks on isreal.IMO.

This would be risky be if the Hibullah attack these troops then we know there would no reasoning with them.

Isreal then could stop the bombing then and concern itself on policeing its borders and trying to find a peace solution.

To be Honest over the next 100 years the middle east will become more of a battle zone there too much oil and religious fundamentalism for it not to.IMO.

So do I. Which is why I think it would benefit Israel (and the international community) to do everything it can to end the conflict before more muslims are drawn to the idea that it can't exist at all. At the moment all I can see is that more and more will turn against Israel than would have otherwise, which surely is counterproductive.