fucking animals.

Imagine this scenario:

You're a young 21 year old fresh out of military service, aged 5 you witnessed a friend get blown up on a bus, aged 13 you r third cousin was gunned down, aged 18 you join the army and your female partner is shot in the leg in a Gaza operation... You go to Goa to escape all this and some Brit starts laying into you about the injustice of the Palestinians cause.

The above is a quite feesable Israeli story as war is all around in israel... Regardless of your interpretation of the conflict - your preaching would only ever result in complete anger.

What right do you have to lecture someone who has witnessed such tragedy... it is the same reason I'm very careful with my words when discussing the conflict with Palestinians.

Both sides have seen such tragedies, when discussing your politics with the victims of war one must be very careful of their choice of language.

So the murderer wasn't an animal?

you choose tragic comany.

your standard village mentality....

Where does it say that?

The rockets can already hit Jerusalem and Tel Aviv.

But I agree, it's only going to get worse.

You are also British Joe, and I am also half Zimbabwean, and for fucks sakes they asked ME what I thought about the situation in the region after sharing a chillum in a large circle (as in common all over Goa) with me and a group of hippies. I said I thought there was wrong on both sides. MOST of them wanted to carry on the conversation and were sound as fuck, as most Israelis are in Goa, but a few hot headed guys with short hair, not the psy trance type (there is a certain name for them over there in Israel) took exception, started on me and called me and a group of 40-60 year old hippies Arab motherfuckers. But then again, put four Israelis in a room and you will get five opinions. Excuse me for not licking Israels arse. Why have you turned into a self righteous heradi attacking everyone left right and centre? I just explained what happened to me, I was trying to open up dialogue with you and explain that I empathised with the shit Israelis have to go through (you are NOT Israeli, you are American-British Jewish). I loved Israelis in Goa, they can appear the rudest people in the world, but at heart they were immensely kind and hospitable. Israel is obviously a tribal society so if you’re on the outside they seem quite hostile, but I love psy-trance, so I was accepted appart from that this one incident. And your reaction was like that of the 'hot heads', cheers for that.

The way I see it, a lot of Palestnians and Israelis are exactly the same in terms of heritage and culture, they eat the same food, listen to the same music, both religions are based on the same father figure, Abraham, so the hate between the two I just can't fathom.

The only similarity I can see is how they both deny any similarity and are ready to fight for it. The irony is that the Palestinians should now be homeless and unwanted wherever they go at the hands of the Israelis, who were persecuted for so long themselves. I don't think Israelis see it this way though. The Palestinians have been effectively demonised or demeaned in the Israeli media so that no one loses any sleep over their current situation. In fact I bet no one knows anything about their current situation – ask an average Israeli in Israel to describe living conditions in Ramallah or a refugee camp and they won’t have more than the faintest idea - do you?

I know I cannot hope to understand any of the situation from reading a newspaper or journal from abroad. To understand the Israeli-Palestinian conflict you have to know the people involved and grasp the energies at play here, and I have contact with both. It’s such a tangled mess that the more you learn the harder it is to really understand anything at all - for me its more confusing than ever.

BOOM SHANKAR - I just wanted a friendly conversation with you

no. he wasn't an animal. he was a human being. If you don't understand that you and all like you are doomed to continue this endless cycle of violent revenge. He was doing what to him seemed a legitimate response to attacks by Israel, Just as you would if you had been born palestinian and still had your apparent extremist personality.

They are also very different cultures though. You only have to go from the Jewish to the Arab parts of Jerusalem to see that.
it's like the greek and turkish cypriots (something I know a great deal about)
they eat the same food and all the rest but they can't share the same island without conflict. or us and the germans for that matter. we are more like them than anyone else but we have fought two wars.

Thats obviously true, considering there are Polish Israelis, Ukranian, Israelis, even black Somalian Israelis in Israel, all of who will have very different cultures. I am on about Sephardic Israelis, who are much more Arabic in identity, and indeed suffered a good deal of prejudice when Israel was first formed simply because of their Arabic appearance. If you are wondering why I know so much about Israelis, I did a lot of research on Hasidic Jews in Bensham (I used to live on Coatsworth Road so was intrigued with their culture) at uni as part coursework for, and interviewed a few lads from the Gateshead Talmudical College. I became friendly with them after sticking up for them when I was walking past their college to my house when a couple of charvers started on them. Bit random, but they then asked me to switch off a light for them as is it was Sabbath

I actually respect you for engaging the dialogue, I was trying to illustrate why you got the reaction you did.

It would be equivelant to me (with my obvious bias) approaching a Palestinian immigrant in England and asking her why wont she recognise Israels right to exist.. Because I have preconcieved opinions my tone of enquiry is likely to be disrespectful of her circumstance.

I'm not Haredi, I'm dati leumi... or national religious... I speak with such vigor on this this thread because the likes of forks are defending a murdering savage who murdered 8 children and violated a school of worship, and then defended the government that blessed this act of terror.

I may be British, but every British born Jew is an Israeli, regardless of citizenship (although that is in the post).

I branded Baruch Goldstein an animal, a title Alaa Abu Dhein shares.

more ignorance... the religions have more in common than they dont.

I respect your stance ferox, you're clearly well educated on Judaism (although the gateshead jews are mitnagdim - the sworn enemy of the hasid )... my initial post to you may have come across as angry... It wasn't i was trying to illustrate why your average Israeli (as opposed to israeli crusties) would get agitated at a westerner voicing contrasting opinions on the conflict.

hang on,

how do you know what ure average israeli would get agitated for?

i didnt know you lived over there

one hell of a fucking commute to work like,
its like me saying stuff about ure average jew not your gateshead jew as they are mitnagdim - the sworn enemy of the hasid but you get my point

because most of my friends grew up in the conflict.

Don't Israelis consider themselves Westerners and European? Their football teams and national teams play in Europe. Mitnagdim, that means against the idea of state of Israel doesn't it? I'm not too hot on the religious side of Judaism, mainly the culture and formation of Israel. I was intrigued at how Israelis in Goa and moderate young Israelis in general seem to incorporate Hinduism symbolism into their culture, and I have red somewhere that there is a historic connection between the two religions. You just have to look at the psy scene for that. Israel is a country I'd like to visit - my Dad spent six months in a kibbutz there in the 70's. I would also love to visit Iran, it is supposed to be one of the friendliest places in the world to visit if your male but I highly doubt Iran would let me past the border if I ever visited Israel.

Mitnagdim are the Jews that study the Talmud, Torah & scriptures (they're incredibly scholarly and intelligent), the hassidim are much more mystical and into Kaballah... both are haredi and both look the same.

I'm interested to know about the Hindu connection as the religions couldn't be mroe different if they tried

I wouldn't like to visit Iran, historically its fascinating - but a country that executes homosexuals in public is not top of my places to visit list... Israel however is

You should definatly go, just make sure you get them to stamp a piece of paper and not your passport... or you could find yourself refused entry to every Islamic country in the world

This is an interesting read Joe

http://www.nowpublic.com/travel/isr...ituality-drugs-freedom-war-having-its-effects

And quick search of the old wiki about Jews in India

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